The Program Script contains my introduction, announcements, future shows and Today's Autistic Community Bulletin Board. Interview Transcripts are sponsored by GT Independence. Go to gtindependence.com Philip King-Lowe Andrew, thank you for being on this episode of Today's Autistic Moment. I'm really excited about this particular interview. Because we know that financial planning for Autistics is very challenging, due to various reasons. And I think it's a great idea to have a talk today about how important financial planning is for Autistic Adults. And that financial plane planning, excuse me, is definitely not impossible, as some might suggests that it might be. So I'm going to start with my first question that I asked in every show. What important information do Autistic Adults and our caregivers need to know about when it comes to financial planning? Andrew Komarow So I guess that might seem like a specific question to you. But to me, it's so open ended in the way that well, then what is financial planning? And I think, you know, kind of, we have to kind of address that first. And if it's, you know, I find a lot of people don't think they need help with financial planning, or they associate financial planning with like a financial adviser or wealth management. And I'm in that can be absolutely true. But nobody should be left out of the conversation. As far as financial literacy, let's call them basics, but that nobody is taught, let alone Autistics, but everyone should be taught. Um, so I just want to say, again, that's First off, like, if you hear the term financial planning, and you think that's not for you? Well, it is in some way, shape or form. Right. So. Philip King-Lowe So what is financial planning? Andrew Komarow Wow. So what is it to me? Or what is it in general, in general, there's really no definition, right? Somebody can say they're a financial planner, and they can be an insurance salesman, they can be a stockbroker. But generally, a financial planner is somebody who looks at your entire situation, how all the pieces fit together, and to help make some recommendations on how to accomplish your financial goals that you tell us. Philip King-Lowe So what does financial planning mean for you? Andrew Komarow I think that for me, while again, what working with people I really like solving problems. So and I like people get to ask me questions about my favorite subject, like what better job could like an Autistic person ask for when it's phrased like that, right? And it's, you know, helping find solutions to people's problems, right, or, and helping them explain things simply, but in the example of it, somebody should never come to me and say they want exactly this product, this company, etc. They should told me what they want to do. And I should present them with options on how to accomplish it and explain it in a simple, easy way. Philip King-Lowe Give us some examples of where financial planning might apply. Andrew Komarow So So generally speaking, we work with individuals themselves, a lot looking to be independent or you know, for working with parents as well, then we'll work with the individuals separately and try and include them in the conversation. And also employers that want to employ people. And so where would it apply? I mean, my definition is it's super vague, it applies to everything you do every day, right? The choice to have, you know, a debit card or credit card. A lot of times it's more under financial literacy. But I think, you know, that has an implication that somebody, you know, is financial illiterate to need financial literacy. So not my favorite terminology. Philip King-Lowe Have you found? Um, have you found? What financial literacy can mean, for many Autistic Adults? Andrew Komarow So, one of the things that I've really found is that many people, but a higher ratio for sure, of Autistic Adults don't think they are as good with money as they are, or there is shame. A lot of it is, you know, what I would consider them a lot, you know, anxiety and or just being left out of the financial decision making process, in the first place, actually worked on a paper about that recently, as well, and there was almost no research out there on, you know, this topic and being left out of the financial decision making process, I feel that's a pretty great way to not feel confident about something as when forever, you're not included and not told, you know, about the conversations, I will say, some of my things I run into, you know, a bit more frequently as somebody feels like they, they have too much debt. And sometimes that's true. Sometimes it's explaining that some debt is okay. Right, having a mortgage at 30. Assuming you can afford one, right, in having that debt and paying it off in 30 years is financially, almost certainly better than renting for 30 years. Right? But, you know, explain, you know, but having those types of conversations, we do get a lot of enjoyment. And I find, you know, there's more self doubting, questioning, but I think the the rest of the population, if that makes sense, I find a lot of us are actually better than we think we are. If we were just given the opportunity, or even if we are, we assume we're not doing as good a job. Yeah. Philip King-Lowe You yourself are Autistic correct? Andrew Komarow Correct. Philip King-Lowe I see from your bio that on, Wow, you've you've come along, you've come a long way. You've done a lot of great work. You know, a Certified Financial Planning Planner, Certified Neurodiversity Professional. And how you put a lot of this together to launch Planning Across the Spectrum. Talk a little bit about what Planning Across the Spectrum is. Andrew Komarow So it's always I guess it might be even talk about what it isn't. But what it is, is, we're, we're different. So I've been a financial planner for over 10 years, I discovered I was Autistic while doing this. And I wanted to, you know, I knew I wanted to focus a bit more on helping people who needed it and also complex. So in other words, in my world, usually complexity meant somebody with a very high net worth, the people who didn't need the help, essentially. So we really, what's different about us is we like to really focus on the individuals themselves. Even if we're working with families, it's because over half of us are, even the individuals who are not Autistic or neuro diverse, as part of our company have a true passion for helping and being inclusive. So we're just, we just want people to be as, you know, free and then restricted financially and just in general, is that they can and I think that's a good goal for everyone to have. Philip King-Lowe Great Great. So you mentioned earlier that financial planning can involve anything from you know, buying a home or renting versus maybe working or planning to, you know, how you manage debt or how one manages their their financial life? Um, can you talk about some specifics within those areas? For example? Andrew Komarow Any specific ones within those areas? Philip King-Lowe Yeah, just a few a few examples, if we can. Andrew Komarow I don't know, like, if you had one or two. Um, so. Philip King-Lowe 1 Um, yeah, once again, we're talking about maybe mortgaging a home? Yeah, no. Andrew Komarow Yeah, No. And I'm sorry, I usually preface more like, again, I don't do open ended questions. Philip King-Lowe That's okay. I don't either. Andrew Komarow Yeah. Philip King-Lowe That's okay. Andrew Komarow So you want to say the question one more time? I think I got it. Philip King-Lowe Of course, I don't mind. Um, well, you gave some examples earlier about what financial planning might involve. Um, one of the things I know that Planning Across the Spectrum does is a lot of work with ABLE accounts. They assist people in finding ABLE accounts, which I myself am just creating one right now. But as far as ABLE accounts, can you kind of talk a little bit more about what ABLE accounts are and how they can be helpful. Andrew Komarow So ABLE accounts are a very popular topic, I was an ABLE ambassador for 2020. I work with, I've helped hundreds of ABLE accounts be open. I give presentations with State Treasurer's and Elder Law associations and, you know, on ABLE accounts in a practical way from someone who also has one myself. And I just give that when I say, you know, an Able account, you know, is a great idea. But it's also very important the reason somebody is doing it, I will say all day long, it's never a bad idea for someone to save money on a tax advantaged basis. It's definitely better than spending it if you're trying to save. However, it's important to why somebody is looking to open an Able account, what are they looking to accomplish? And primarily, if somebody is on a benefit, such as SSI, or Medicaid, where there's an asset test, most places $2,000, but not everywhere. Thank you, Connecticut for being unique and keeping that extra $400.00. We only have $1600.00. Anyway. So I find that's the majority of the reason for an ABLE account, not that there aren't other reasons, I guess to use an example would be, it's almost a little ablest to assume that some just because somebody has Autism means that they should have this certain special type of account. Right, right. And I tried to educate in a way in my profession, that they're great that there are worse things you could do. Right, but here's what it does and doesn't do. And there's a lot of confusion among them. I will say, the vast majority of professionals even like me, or attorneys don't understand them that well. And I'm really working to try to help solve that. Philip King-Lowe Yeah. Well, here in the state of Minnesota, the way I understand ABLE accounts work is that um one must be receiving disability benefits of some kind, but also, Minnesota has what we call Medical Assistance, or Medical Assistance for Employed Persons with Disabilities. And the requirement of Minnesota is that someone can have up to but must be under $3,000 in personal assets to access those programs. So ABLE accounts, as far as Minnesota is concerned, enables one to save some money in a way that will not affect those benefits. That's how it tends to work in Minnesota. Commercial Break Philip King-Lowe So, okay, um, my second question, and I'll try to make this one a little bit more specific for you. Um, you've already kind of been naming a few, but what the barriers for Autistic Adults of all ages when it comes to financial planning,? And we've named a few of those. I mean, there is this perception that Autistic Adults do not know how to financial plan. Yeah. There is sometimes the barriers that Autistics can have difficulties with managing money. Yeah. There's, you know, there's things like that, and, and also the fact that, um, and this is why I'm so glad I have you as a guest today, because you are an Autistic, helping other Autistics to look to learn how to do these things, we often encounter financial planners who are not so accommodating to Autistic individuals. So if you can comment on some of those, and maybe talk about some other barriers that you have found along the way? Andrew Komarow Well, so I mean, two things. So one is, the vast majority of financial planning, you know, is, especially if, in my world, the financial planning world anyway, if we hear Autism, you know, that's associated with special needs. There's a lot of assumptions that are made. Attorneys, their duty is to the parent, not the person, if it's come to them with someone with special needs. Majority of the same time, the advisors, I think, again, the biggest thing is, you know, how they're being left out of the equation, right, and just not even be the biggest barriers just feel like it's just being excluded from the beginning. So, you know, what makes us a bit different is, even if we are, you know, working with a parent, we want to know about the individual, we want to know what they like and don't like, right? You know, we want to, you know, cuz it's, it's very normal, if we're, if somebody has a 12 year old, right, that we're working with the parents neurotypical or not right, or Autistic. So what we try to include them as much in our decisions as possible. One thing that makes us a little bit different as well is we really focus a lot on what is an individual eligible for and why? And how can somebody work and maintain benefits and strategies, so the person can work and maintain benefits, but also, to a sorry I lost my train of thought that happens a lot. But I'll bet again, like, sometimes it's a myth, sometimes it's a reality, right? And we're very passionate about, there's all this employment, but it doesn't matter, if nobody will take the job for fear of losing benefits. So our large part of what we're trying to do now is the two parts the educate the individuals on, you know, myths slash reality and, or what they can do. And also work with employers to pay individuals in a way where it can potentially not affect their benefits and be better for everyone. So we'd all like that, you know, many are told they can't work, or that they shouldn't work. Sometime, not everyone can work, but if somebody is doing something they really like to do. You know, I don't think they should be held back for doing that from you know, fear of a myth or a solvable problem, Philip King-Lowe Right. We also know that, for many the helpers the help, can almost come to a stop once somebody is 18 or 21 and over. There is there are so many barriers for Autistic Adults in terms of not having programs or services available to them. Um, can you share with us about some ways that you help adults, especially once they cross over into that time when their parents are really not able to assist them? Andrew Komarow So that that is one of the biggest reasons when initially people will come out and reach out to us is when there's that cliff as it's referred to, and the big difference is, prior to the cliff, you know, 21 or Michigan 22, or sorry, 26. The school is providing services and support. And, you know, it's just a very different world. What I would like to say The person with Autism is still a person. So for example, plenty of 18 year olds would prefer to stay home all day and play video games, Autistic or not. So I think it's also very hard to kind of separate that with the real world. And I find, you know, encouraging parents to also, you know, your side is still the person still a person, right. And as a parent myself, I understand again, it can be that, you know, challenging you've allocated advocated for someone for so long. We're a big advocate on supported decision making. There's a new Free Britany movement among Connecticut's support decision making coalition. And it's essentially, you know, that people, a lot of Autistics rights are being taken away, sometimes irrevocably. And so trying just to educate that there is another option, not saying that, nobody should ever have that. But, you know, and I'm more close to the almost nobody, right? But it's, that's something that I find myself educating a lot on as well. So they say, well, the doctor said, I needed conservatorship, so I could, you know, get their medical information. And it's, well, if that's all we're looking to do, then sign a release with the doctor. So you're able to talk to the doctor to with your son's permission and make a decision together. Like, I think any neuro-typical 18 year olds, right, I guess in the nicest way possible, treat a young adult, like a neuro typical young adult, and a lot of ways. And I think we do a very poor job of looking for things that are specialized, meaning stop looking for companies that just hire Autistic workers. There's a piano, the ad companies that have initiatives, there's 1500 workers hired around the country I saw. I think that exclude some of the smaller ones, like you know, an Ultra Yachts or and Ask for Tech or a Blue Star. But don't pigeonhole yourself through a program, figure out what you like to do and why and how you can do you know more of it? If that makes sense. Philip King-Lowe It makes perfect sense. Lastly, and this is actually my favorite question that I always asked, um, what steps should Autistic Adults and our supporters take to advocate for our needs? And I can't help but notice in your bio, that you do a lot of advocacy work. And I've also seen your advocacy on LinkedIn. When it comes to financial management, financial services, planning a financial future, what are some ways that you might suggest that Autistic Adults and our supporters do to help us advocate for ourselves here? Andrew Komarow I think, don't assume that something is above you, or you're not good at math, or this is confusing, and, you know, blame the person. Einstein said, "If you can't explain it, simply you don't understand it well enough." Right? And although this can be a confusing area, don't, you know, just ignore it or don't ask questions right? You, you know, what you want better than anyone else should right know and beyond advocating for themselves? And if something's being recommended to you ask why. Right. So you're being asked to open enable, Well, wait, why? Why are you recommending this? Right? What is the reason? And there should be a clear, quantifiable reason, it will help you maintain your medical insurance while you work. Okay? If you want to dive in, feel free. But the person should be able to answer that and don't be afraid of asking those questions. And if you get an answer, that's harder. You know? Philip King-Lowe Yeah, that's a good answer. Um, I find that one of the most important parts about advocacy is telling our stories about what being Autistic means for us. Each of us has our own unique understanding of what our Autism is, how it affects us and the barriers, barriers we have to overcome and the things we do to work past them. Once again, I see a lot of your story here, that you were diagnosed later in life. And that, you know, your advocacy on several committees there in Connecticut are really profound. Um, do you have a story that you can think of, um, where you have advocated that for your yourself and for the Autistic community, that you might be able to tell us? Andrew Komarow I think it might be harder, trying to figure out who I have not add or when I have not advocated or right, I think, I think a lot of advocacy is small. I don't think advocacy is telling strangers on the internet, why they're wrong. And insulting them, I bet is not advocacy that doesn't, you know, controversial or not, I think, you know, advocacy is, you know, trying to try to understand where the other side is, right? And just try to move the ball forward and have, you know, accomplish something versus having a million ideas and not accomplishing any of them. I struggle with this in every aspect of my life. Right. But, you know, if there's something small, I'll give you a great example. Okay, you did ask for an example. I'm on Connecticut's Autism Waiver Committee, and our bylaws state that there have to be two autistics on the committee at least. Okay. And there was a bill that was proposed. And I am one of the Autistics and my friend colleague is the co chair of the committee, and she is Autistic. There was a bill that was proposed that wanted to add more voices to individuals, families, Autism. However, and it said that it wanted at least one of them to be a co chair. Okay, in theory, that sounds great. However, the way it was worded is that there could be three people. So right now there's someone from the state, there's someone with Autism, they wanted the ability to add either a, you know, a parent with a, with a child or a parent with an adult, but the way it was worded, there could be no Autistic voices on this official state government Autism, or ASD Advisory Council, you know, waiver committee. Because you could have a parent of a young adult and a parent of an adult to technically meet the requirements. I'm on the committee, I brought it up. And he is the one who proposed the bill. He's like, that was absolutely not our intent. You know, the current person who is the co chair is Autistic, we obviously don't want her going anywhere. It was just never officially in there. And they fixed the legislation. Didn't need to lobby any senators didn't need to, you know, just something kind of small like that. I feel like that makes a difference. And I also, my favorite, one of my favorite quotes is never attribute anything to malice that can be adequately explained by stupidity. And when I just assume that somebody is either ignorant, stupid, they just don't care. First malicious, I found it makes my life much, much better. Instead of getting mad, at first, as I, my initial reaction, that it looked like this was a way to potentially exclude right individuals on the council. It was not even a debate, he was thankful I brought this to his attention. And he, you know, saw why it was worded that way. And that was not the intent. The intent was if there is a third person that it can be a parent, you know, not that we're okay, you know, and we want to solidify that and Autistic needs to be on there because even though one exists now, that's actually not even a requirement. Philip King-Lowe Yeah, and so and some of that just kind of comes from a very, um probably to me one of the more evils of this whole discussion is a certain presumption of incompetence upon Autistics. You know, and that's one of those places that I feel that Autistics need to become involved in advocacy. So that, um, we make it very clear, we are not in competent, we do know how to take care of ourselves, we do know how to speak up for ourselves. We just had to put those talents to use would you agree? Andrew Komarow Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah. And assume competence. Right. Philip King-Lowe Right. Yeah. Yeah, um, well, that was a great story, I very much appreciate you sharing that. Commercial Break Philip King-Lowe Before we wrap this up, Andrew, um, many of my listeners are going to want to know if there are some resources that they can reach out to. Of course, Planning Across the Spectrum is one of them. planningacrossthespectrum.com is available. But um, can you tell us a little bit maybe about some of the resources you might provide that helps Autistic Adults identify their financial planning needs? And, and maybe how to move forward with some of that? Andrew Komarow Yeah, so I guess I would say that, you know, the secret to getting ahead is getting getting started. And, you know, it's, we have a lot of great resources, a lot of great information is out there for free. I do it too. Autistics Talk Money with just open questions. We have a little bit of a subject with Rebecca Laurie Hector, the third Wednesday of every month at 3:30pm eastern. We, you know, have it live and then record it. So that's a great thing that I encourage people to attend and ask questions. And, you know, we go over, you know, different topic, but it's all really just decided by what interests Autistics we started it with, basically, we will think we can talk about money for an hour, and provide some good information. So I would say, you know, there's almost too much resources out there, right? People don't even know what to do what questions to ask. I would say for anyone, figure out exactly what you have. Figure out what your goal is. And, you know, then if you can present that either to someone like me or anyone or yourself, you can solve from there. I find even parents are difficult anyone, they're just so lost with too much information, and not knowing what's relevant and not. So figure out where you are, then you figure out where you want to go, and and then figure out how you're going to get there. Philip King-Lowe And we know that many Autistic people have difficulty with with trying to figure out what those things are. We all know that we have we can have so many different options in front of us that we don't know which one to take, first. Do you and others who work at Planning Across the Spectrum, do you work to help Autistics figure some of that out? Andrew Komarow Absolutely. So we don't expect people to know the answers or to be able to, you know, to be able to know exactly where they want to go or even where they are. Right. So that's part of our processes, helping the individual figure that out. Of course, we can't tell anyone what they want to do. But well, we'll help them figure that out. And I help them realize their goals. And yeah. Philip King-Lowe Thank you very much. Well, Andrew, I want to thank you again for being on Today's Autistic Moment. I know that many of my listeners do appreciate the information you've shared. And I do encourage my listeners to indeed check out the website planningacrossthespectrum.com. And the website is listed on the Autism Resources Links page on todaysautisticmoment.com. And if anyone wants to contact you, how can they do that? Andrew Komarow Andrew@planningacrossthespectrum.com works perfectly. Philip King-Lowe Okay. Well, thank you, Andrew for being on today. Andrew Komarow Yeah, no, thank you for having me. Happy to be here. Yep, right. Transcribed by https://otter.ai